On Not Going to Seminary
For a long time I’ve encouraged would be pastors not to go to seminary. You can find a long chapter I wrote on the subject over ten years ago called Seminaries: Strangled by Creeping Vines .
Here is a short excerpt:“I keep getting asked if I really mean it when I say that seminary training is a waste of time. Yes, I mean that, at least the way seminary is today. I also mean it because I see so many authentic ministries being accomplished without it. Here are some of my thoughts in rough draft form. “ for more click here.
Today I ran across a blog by Greg Atkinson that says the same thing. Way to go Greg.
This does not mean that pastors shouldn’t be educated. No way. It means that the way pastors are being educated is changing to become more biblical. Instead of relying totally on what I call a “data dump,” pastors are being mentored and coached by people who have done what the would be pastor feels called to do. Like the Disciples who followed Jesus around, the emphasis is on on-the-job-training.
So quit wasting time going to seminary. Find a mentor who is doing what you feel called to do and latch on to that person.Bill
November 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Bill,
How would you suggest one enter ministry within your denomation, the United Methodist Church. The structure does not lend itself to skipping the seminary route for the most part. ANy thoughts?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
I dont think they could. that is one of the problems iwth my tribe. Before the 1950s we didnt require seminary. And we shouldnt now. We are very much a good boy system and that needs to change. The real problem is that already most of the talent is bypassing denominations that require seminary. Just a prelude to either change or death for many deonminations that emphaize academic credentials over demonstrated credentials. We need to do what the Porta Ricans UMC have done and not ordain someone until they have grown a church for seven years.
November 20th, 2008 at 11:46 am
I’ve been in ministry almost seven years and have grown a a large small groups ministry from nothing, and started and grown a healthy Multi Site ministry reaching 700 people a weekend, and yet time and time again pastors and church people roll their eyes at me when then find out I don’t have a seminary degree. It’s as if the lack of a degree disqualifies everthing I’ve tried to do for the Kingdome. I agree with you completely Bill, denominations that require seminary degrees are eliminating a huge talent pool of young leaders who are ready to surrender their lives to God’s work.
November 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
I did seminary. Altogether a great experience, but it didn’t qualify me for ministry. Post graduation I spent the next 5 years trying to sort through all the questions and confusion left by the M.Div endeavor. Unfortunately, the general cause of seminary and the churches that hire, is a system built on the economy of knowledge and charisma; and rarely on the content of character, maturity, and call. The humorous component of this adventure is that I returned to get a psychology degree and become a psychotherapist. I can fairly express that the common seminary experience is one the nurtures character quirks, (a.k.a. personality disorders). Often in the educational process, we’re not called to look at the troubling success-driven narratives that we’re living out in ministry, which ultimately cost those we claim to serve, especially when the pastoral authority card is pulled on them when there is a differing in understanding. while pastoring, I was guilty of this offense at a rate that I’m not proud of. The model of “Discipled Pastors” is a return to the process of rabbinical patience, training, maturity and release to become a rabbi (pastor).
November 20th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I’ve been thinking this for some time now- I went to Bible College and am currently working toward an MDiv at Northwest Nazarene. The MDiv program I feel okay with, because they’ve really gone to a mentoring model in this particular program. But I can’t help but feel like I wasted my time at Bible College. I feel like I would have been much better served to have pursued a degree at a state school, like in writing or history or economics, something like that. I say this for several reasons: one, most Bible Colleges, quite frankly, suffer from a lack of quality faculty and programs- mine no exception. Two, most Bible Colleges are very myopic in nature. Three, I’ve learned a lot more “on the job” at the church I am currently the pastor, as well as through my own reading and interaction with others online here and face-to-face. And four, for whatever reason, most Bible Colleges tend to foster a “closed off from the world” atmosphere, even when they try not to.
As such, I’ve recently encouraged a young guy who was contemplating switching out of his state school to bible college to stick with it, and then look for a very hands on/mentoring type program at a seminary.
November 21st, 2008 at 4:01 pm
doesn’t this idea decrease the opportunity for ‘free thought’ and imagination when it comes to the inevitability of dealing with ideas and interpretations in the life of the church? Doesn’t there remain value in the exposure to ideas, whether they be old or new, in books or in people? Sure, it can happen inside mentorship/coaching, but in a world with so much mixture and so many differences, wouldn’t it be valuable to have a both/and solution? (will read the creeping vines blog too, but curious)
Or is this blogging/networking world already answering that question…
November 22nd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Bill,
I must agree with your comment that many talented people are answering their call to ministry out-side the UMC, and other denominations that require seminary educated clergy.
This is tragic … to know that talented people are not even giving the UMC a single consideration as the place they can do ministry.
I am mentoring one of the few (in my opinion) talented people going through our ministerial process. What may finally cause him to look elsewhere, is the “cost” / toll that seminary is taking out on his family, both emotionally through physical separation . . . and financially.
So . . . I agree with you . . . I just don’t know what to do about it.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Jesus went to seminary and so should you!!
Seriously, the Wesleyan Church (my denomination) has a wonderful non-traditional ministry training program called FLAME. It is sort of a “Bible college on wheels” — intensive classes offered around the country with pre and post course work. I have taught several courses in this program, and find that most of my students are already in some sort of a ministry context. They apply what they learn IMMEDIATELY. It is not mere theory — but practical theology.